Harsha Bhogle: On Time Out with Harsha today we are going to discuss the state of bowling around the world. We have Ian Chappell and Sanjay Manjrekar in the studio going country by country, and we've got an expert comment from Allan Donald. Then we will go across to S Rajesh to find out exactly what the numbers show and which country is doing better.
Ian, let me start with you. Are you happy with the standards of bowling in international cricket? Do you think they are dropping a little bit? You think the pitches are affecting the bowlers a little bit these days?
Ian Chappell: I think we have seen pretty competitive cricket in last 12 months or so, and a couple of things have contributed to it. The main thing is the more even spread of good bowlers. I think we have got four what I could class as outstanding attacks and two quite good attacks. Then throw in the fact that Champions Trophy last year in South Africa had some pitches with a bit of life in them, the administrators in Australia before last summer asked for a bit more grass on the pitches, which helped the bowlers quite a bit, and in England for the last two seasons we have seen a lot of swing around. So in general, in those conditions, the bowlers have prospered quite well. In the subcontinent it is perhaps a different matter. The pitches there tend to favour batsmen and bowlers have a bit of a hard time there.
HB: Sanjay, are you generally happy with the health of bowling?
Sanjay Manjrekar: Actually the reason why the bowling is the way it is is because the cricketing conditions have changed a lot since 50-overs cricket flourished. To prepare a good pitch was to prepare a flat pitch, and that started happening due to limited-overs cricket because people wanted to see fours and sixes. So the curators were under pressure to prepare a pitch which is good for run-scoring, and just to make sure that it made for good viewing, runs being scored quickly.
The curators also started making the same sorts of pitches for Test matches. That's when the bowlers started talking about right areas, when they realised that most pitches around the world were flat. What it meant was to bowl outside the off stump, be patient and wait for the batsmen to make a mistake. For a good 10-15 years, they realised that there was nothing in it for them and they have to bowl in the right areas. That is starting to change, as Ian mentioned. Also, the curators have realised that for Test cricket to become more attractive, the crowd also wants some more life in the pitch. So basically everyone is adjusting to the way cricket is changing through various periods and decades.
I would like to believe that the administrators will now react to the market. We live in a world where the market dictates where your product is heading. The administrators will start responding and you will see more life coming into the pitches when they realise that we need balance between the bat and the ball to get the crowds in, to get the viewership back in Test cricket. I liked the pitch at The Oval; it's got something for the bowlers.
HB: Right, I am going to ask both of you to analyse each country. We are not going to look at all 10 countries, but we will look at the top six. We are looking at the bowling side of each country, and we will start with Australia. They have always had a fair tradition of wrist-spin bowling, but Chappelli how to do you rate the fast and fast-medium bowlers in Australia? They have been injury-struck. I mean, Peter Siddle looked a decent bowler, then he got injured; injury has taken Brett Lee out of the game. So are you happy with the state of Australian bowling these days?
IC: I think the pace bowling is pretty good. Doug Bollinger made a big difference to the Australian side when he came in last season; he bowled extremely well in Australia. Ben Hilfenhaus coming back also gives them a bit more variety. Mitchell Johnson is a wicket-taker, and the fact that he has struggled the last two times he has bowled in England, once against England and once against Pakistan, suggests that he needs a little bit more bounce to be at his devastating best.
Nathan Hauritz is steady, and I think he has improved. It is hard work in Australia to be a finger spinner. You need to be an exceptional finger spinner to be successful in Australia. Steve Smith, you are probably looking at another two-three years before he develops, and hopefully he will develop as a bowling allrounder. That's what Australia really needs. They need Smith to be able to bat in the top six, but also be able to get into the side for his bowling. And I think it is probably about two or three seasons away before he gets to that stage. I think Australia, at the moment, are a pretty decent attack - probably more so for Australian conditions than English conditions.
HB: In fact, I was about to ask Sanjay: are they an all-weather, all-conditions bowling side?
SM: That is the key point here, when you are talking about bowling attacks: which conditions are these bowlers operating in? Then you visualise those bowlers or assess their performance from the past results. When you look at bowling attacks from around the world, Australia will still perhaps be number one, because you can imagine that attack being pretty good on Indian conditions and in Sri Lanka as well.
One of the key aspects of bowling, I think, which slowly seamers are discovering, is the length. We were talking about the channel outside the off stump. I think length is the key. When you don't have anything coming from the surface, we have seen Lasith Malinga use the length beautifully to get wickets. We have a history of Pakistan bowlers not worrying about the surface and using the length of their bowling. Getting everything in the air, trying to beat batsmen in pace and not using the surface at all by bowling the ball full. That's where Australia is good. They have got Mitchell Johnson, who uses the length well. Bollinger is also quite happy pitching the ball up. So attacks, especially the Indian seam attack, which depends too much on the pitch, where they look to bowl around good length or short of good length, are the ones that will struggle on flat pitches. Australia and South Africa, to me, are the attacks that can perhaps make an impression in all sorts of conditions.
HB: We will come to those in a minute, one point answer from you - out of 10, how many points for Australia? I don't want you to go into the past.
SM: As they stand today, I would give them 7-8 points on a scale of 10.
HB:Chappelli, 7 points for Australia?
IC: I would give Australia 6.8 points.
HB: Trust you to have that little difference. Let's move on to England, who for the first time are showing a fair amount of consistency in team selection. It's not that you see a different bowler coming in every Test match, as you saw about a decade ago. They have got a swing bowler in James Anderson, they have got a very steady bowler who gets good bounce in Steven Finn, and a hit-the-deck bowler in Stuart Broad. And they have suddenly found this wonderful finger spinner in Graeme Swann, who has just hit 100 Test wickets. How do you rate England?
IC: Well, I think England have got a very good attack and I would be interested in seeing how they go in Australia. I am just not sure how good they would be in Australian conditions. I think Swann is that exceptional finger spinner that you need, and I think Swann should bowl pretty well in Australia. Anderson hasn't proved himself to me yet, and the Australian tour will give him the opportunity to show that he can be a really top-class bowler when the ball is not swinging. That's the other thing that he needs to do to take a step towards being a real top-notch bowler. Stuart Broad and Finn, they should bowl all right in Australia with their height and bounce, but that can also be a bit of trap. If you continually bowl a bit too short in Australia, against batsmen who can play horizontal bat shots, then you can take a bit of caning. So England, I would rate them the best attack at the moment, but that's in their own conditions. In Australia I am just not quite so sure about that.
HB: So in England, 6.9 and in Australia 6?
IC: England in England, 6.95 to be exact, Harsha.
HB: Sanjay, you like what you see with England?
SM: Yes, but as Ian said it's a good attack in English conditions. Also, when you talk about attacks you have to talk about the captain. It is important to know the captain's attitude towards the game, and just watching Andrew Strauss it seems that he likes to play the waiting game. So on flat pitches this England bowling attack might be waiting for just too long, and that could be a problem. So perhaps it's a good attack in English conditions, because they are used to those conditions and there is more help for their seamers. There the captain will succeed in the waiting game if he just keeps bowling outside the off stump. In flat conditions - I am imagining this England attack on a typical Indian pitch like Ahmedabad - it's not a threatening attack.
HB: So how much out of 10?
SM: I will go with about 6 points, just because I think the best spinner in the world is with England right now.
HB: Sorry Chappelli, I did not ask you for England in conditions outside of England? You rated them 6.95 in English conditions. And outside of England?
IC: Probably 6.5 at this stage.
HB: Those are the numbers to beat as we head towards South Africa, which probably has the best new-ball bowler in the world at the moment, in Dale Steyn. There is Morne Morkel, who in those conditions can get good bounce, steepling bounce; he's a tall man. Makhaya Ntini's replacement is not yet visible. Paul Harris and Johan Botha, they have not really set the world alight. Sanjay, your thoughts on South Africa's bowling attack?
SM: When you compare the South African attack with the Australian bowling attack, you see clear difference in their bowling ability. Australians historically have had more ability per bowler in their team. But a South African attack in South Africa is a tough one. If you look at the records of Indian batsmen, all the great Indian batsmen, they have a good record in Australia, but in South Africa all of them have records that are not great.
HB: Why do you think that is the case?
SM: Just tough cricket, I guess. South Africa just play really well at home. Not very attacking - as I said they are quite happy playing the waiting game, bowling outside the off stump. Maybe, just temperamentally they come out differently on their own pitches. They understand them. Just enough help, pace and bounce as well, and that helps them apply the theory of waiting, which works.
I also liked the way they bowled in India in the last series. Steyn was outstanding - he got seven wickets on a flat pitch. Harris, he bowls a negative line and the tactics are debatable, but he keeps pressure on from the other end. So on flat pitches he can complement fast bowlers well. So I like the South African attack in all conditions.
HB: Chappelli, fast bowling looks all right, but maybe not much depth outside of Steyn and Morkel, and in spin bowling. Are you happy with the overall look?
IC: I have got a query against Steyn as well. He is a very fine bowler when he is on, but he strikes me as someone who might be moody. I have seen a couple of times when you think, "What the hell is going on here? He is not doing much." Then suddenly you get a bee in his bonnet and he is a different bowler.
There was a classic example when Phil Hughes got his hundred in Durban. Steyn did not go after Hughes at all until he got the hundred. I was starting to wonder: since when do you have a handicap in Test cricket, where they let you get hundred before they get after you? So that's my query with Steyn. When he is good, he is very good, but he is a little bit moody.
Morkel, I think, has got room for a lot of improvement. If he gets it all together then he could be one of the really top-class quickies around. I think he is improving. He seemed to lose line and length every now and again, but he is cutting down on those occasions.
Their third seamer at the moment would be Wayne Parnell, but he has been injured a bit. They have tried Lonwabo Tsotsobe and Friedel de Wet, but they really haven't got a third seamer. And Harris, to me, is just a good honest, negative bowler, who will try and tie you down. It's a typical South African ploy: try and keep things quiet until your frontline quickies are ready to come back again. Harris has had more success than I think he should have, but that's a credit to him.
I have got Australia, England and Pakistan better than South Africa at the moment. I have South Africa at 6.2 points.
HB: So it's 6.2 for South Africa. This is becoming like gymnastics judges - numbers flashing on the big screen. Sanjay, what's your number for South Africa?
SM: Just a little below Australia. I gave Australia 7-8, so I will give South Africa 7 points.
HB: Now, your favourite side in the world. I know you get excited watching Pakistan. Favourite in that they tingle your senses a little bit. When Pakistan are playing, you don't know what to do. Suddenly Mohammad Amir appears out of nowhere. Mohammad Asif, when you think his career is over, he comes back, maybe five or six kph slower, but he is bowling well. Then a Wahab Riaz comes out of nowhere and picks up five wickets. There is still a Sohail Tanvir somewhere, Shoaib Akhtar, maybe Mohammad Sami, there is Rana Naved… all of them are around. Two years ago the attack was completely different.
SM: That's why you want Pakistan around. I am so glad that we are seeing Pakistan in action. Their top-order batsmen are struggling a bit because they are playing in conditions they don't like.
HB: The conditions are good for their fast bowlers though.
SM: Exactly, but that's been their problem. Pakistan's problem has been the top-order batting, which is getting even more exposed in helpful conditions, but it's the bowling that we have to talk about, and that's where I really get excited with the talent.
And this has got to do with the culture that they have in Pakistan. It's nothing to do with the academies that they have, or some bowling coach who gets them to do their biomechanics well. It's just the kind of culture that they have. If you have an Under-19 selection, and if you ask the kids to line up as batsmen and fast bowlers, then you will perhaps have a longer queue to bowl fast at the nets rather than batsmen wanting to bat.
HB: Everyone is raving about Mohammad Amir?
SM: For a young bowler, he is almost a complete seam bowler, and that very rarely happens. You see fast bowlers develop and become complete after four or five seasons. This guy is really gifted, and when I talk about lengths, these are the guys who bowl the attacking lengths. Again, it's the culture. They have seen the likes of Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram bowl the full-length deliveries, the bouncers, the slower deliveries and everything, and that's why they like to do it as well. Also they have no choice but to do something in the air, because pitches back in Pakistan are like concrete pitches, bowlers' graveyards. But in spite of that, they want to bowl fast and they have so many fast bowlers coming through the ranks. And that is purely because they know that length and they try and get quick in the air.
HB: It's an interesting one, though. They are hardly going to play any international cricket in Pakistan, sadly, by the looks of it. So as all-weather bowlers, 6 points, 7 points?
SM: I am not going to give Pakistan too many points because their problem has been the back-up, which is catching. For good seam bowlers, good fast bowlers, you need a good slip cordon as well. One of the reasons why the 80s attack of the West Indies was great was because they had a great slip cordon. It was like a fishing net behind the stumps. So because the back-up isn't great, I am going to give them about, just 7 points.
HB: Sanjay is the polite one for the bowlers. Chappelli, you are one who is in the sixes; he is in the sevens. What do you think of Pakistan?
IC: I think Pakistan have got a very good attack, and because they are going to play a lot of their cricket in England, I think that suits them greatly. The difference, I would say, between Mohammad Asif, and other bowlers like Steyn and Anderson... Anderson, I think is becoming more consistent, but you still are just not sure what you are going to get. But with Asif, even if he doesn't take wickets, he is going to bowl well, he will beat the bat, and he is a real artist. I think he is a tremendous bowler.
Mohammad Amir is also a terrific young bowler, but the only worry I have about him is that they are going to use him so much that they will wear him out fairly quickly. And Sanjay did point to the fact that they have got a horrible catching cordon. Although it looks like that they might have got a good one with the opening batsman they got in for the Oval Test match, Yasir Hameed. He took a really good catch, and I have seen him take one or two good catches as a substitute. But you never know what you are going to get from Kamran Akmal - some days he's got bricks in his gloves. So that makes it very hard for the bowlers, when sometimes you have to get the guy out three times. Umar Gul is a good bowler; he is a bit inconsistent, but when he is good, he is really good.
They have got quite a bit of talent in spin bowling. Saeed Ajmal is a good bowler and Danish Kameria has got all the ability in the world, but he cannot work out his field placings. I cannot believe that the guy has got about 260 Test wickets and he hasn't got a clue about placing his field. If he ever got his field right and got some sort of plan into his bowling, then he could be terrific.
HB: Maybe he needs a better captain?
IC: Mate, if you are a bowler and your livelihood is depending on you getting wickets then why the hell wouldn't you know what field placing you want? I think he has got a good young captain now. I think Salman Butt is the right guy, he has got stability and is an intelligent young bloke. But I have got a query, as to why the hell the bowler doesn't know what field he wants? I wouldn't put too much blame on the captain.
HB: How much would you rate them Chappelli?
IC: I have given them 6.75 points, and if they had a decent fielding side then they might be about 7.5 points.
HB: [laughs] Now for the last two teams. We are going to club them together largely because they are always playing against each other. So it's almost like they are always together - India and Sri Lanka.
India, I think, has a really desperate problem because their one world-class bowler, Zaheer Khan, is out and I think slowly India have to get used to the fact that Zaheer Khan is not going to be available all the time, because he seems to be carrying a lot of injuries. But the rest of the seam bowling or swing bowling is really about who is not playing, who is injured, who is in the garage rather than driving on the road. And is Harbhajan plateau-ing, I wonder?
SM: Yes, I think that has happened for a while, and I think we have to accept that this is what Harbhajan Singh is all about. In the last five or six years we have expected Harbhajan to bowl differently. When he arrived on the scene he was brilliant. I think it was one of the very rare performances from an Indian bowler, in the series against Australia in 2001, which India won at home. On good pitches he ran through the opposition, a very good batting unit, and won the series for India. That hasn't quite happened with too many Indian bowlers, so obviously that was a rare performance. But after that, with age and playing a lot of cricket, the opposition knows what you are all about, and he hasn't evolved too much, and I think he has stagnated as a bowler. Still, a wonderful bowler whom the captain finds dependable. He is not really going to let you down badly but he is also not going to surprise you with anything different.
HB: But apart from Harbhajan, in what is traditionally considered the home for spin bowling, are the Indian stocks looking bare to you? Do you like Pragyan Ojha? Do you like Amit Mishra? Do you like Piyush Chawla? And there is no one beyond them.
SM: I am not terribly impressed with the two legspinners. I was excited to see Amit Mishra for the first time, but that was in a limited-overs game. After watching him bowl on some decent batting pitches, he looks pretty limited. Of the three you mentioned, Pragyan Ojha could be the pick, but India have some problems with the spin department. And again, it's got to do with the culture that India has - nobody really wants to be a bowler.
HB: And the fast bowlers are just coming and going. Irfan Pathan has come and gone. Ishant Sharma has gone, come, gone, come and now you really don't know where he is. RP Singh has fallen off the radar completely…
SM: I had some hopes from RP Singh, because he looked like a guy who could produce two wicket-taking deliveries on flat pitches. Of the lot, Praveen Kumar to me, if Zaheer Khan is not fit, looks the only bowler who is quite capable of taking wickets right up the order.
HB: Points for India…
SM: From the teams we have discussed, India looks pretty ordinary as a bowling attack. So I would go with 6 points.
HB:Chappelli, can you club the two together and give points for India and Sri Lanka?
IC: Well, they both have got similar sorts of problems - not much depth in pace bowling. Zaheer is very good when he is playing but he seems to be injured quite a lot. Ishant Sharma, I am hopeful, will come back, and it does appear that his performances, certainly statistically - I haven't seen him bowling lately - seem to be improving. Which is good news, because I thought he was a terrific young bowler. Harbhajan, to me, has been a very defensive bowler for quite some time now.
With Sri Lanka, you've got Lasith Malinga, who is terrific. The rest of their pace attack is pretty ordinary. Ajantha Mendis, I think the world's batsmen have worked him out a bit, and I don't think he is anywhere near as dangerous as he was. I haven't seen enough of Suraj Randiv to know much about him.
So I have got India at 6.1 points and Sri Lanka at 5.9 points.
SM: The Sri Lankan attack looks slightly better than India's. If Zaheer Khan is fit then maybe they're on par. But Malinga has come on really well as the strike bowler. He comes in looking to get wickets and he produces some really good deliveries to get some really good batsmen out. Ajantha Mendis, people have worked him out but I love this guy's temperament; he has got accuracy, and he has got a couple of deliveries that will always trouble at least two batsmen from the opposition. Impressed with Randiv. I think he has got good temperament. Maybe skills-wise, he is nowhere in the league of Murali, but there is something there with Randiv that you can work on. So that attack, at this stage, looks better than India's.
HB: So you are going with...?
SM: I think 6 points, close to England.
HB: Okay, we have given points. But if we hadn't given points, we just woke you up at night and asked you the best bowling attack in the world today. It would be…
SM: Australia.
HB: Chappelli?
IC: Well, the first question I would ask is, where they are playing?
HB: All weather.
IC: If it's in Australia, then I would probably go with Australia. But if it's in England then I would definitely go with England.
HB: And the subcontinent?
IC: I might go for England ahead of Australia, because of Swann's ability. Pakistan on the subcontinent would be very difficult, but there again you've still got the same problem. If you can give Pakistan bowlers another fielding side, then they would probably be pretty tough.
SM: I think the challenge in the subcontinent is not as much about the bowling talent you have as how you play as a unit. If you ask the Indian batsmen which is the attack they wouldn't want to face in India, then I think Australia and South Africa would be right up there.
HB: While on the topic of bowling, no one better than Allan Donald to have on the show, and our programme today is all about the state of bowling in the world. Are you happy with the kind of bowlers you are seeing or do you think it's just sort of being phased out a little bit?
Allan Donald: I'm very happily retired right now. The amount of cricket that players play these days… everyone talks about quick bowlers around the world, the likes of Brett Lee who have retired from Test cricket, the likes of Dirk Nannes, who doesn't want to play even domestic four-day stuff, is quite worrying. I think it has taken its toll. The pitches prepared around the world have become an absolute joke. I suppose I speak for the whole fast-bowling fraternity. The flat wickets - you look at the scores these days, it's becoming quite worrying. The volume of cricket has taken its toll on some of the greatest bowlers in the world right now.
HB: Do you think that it is reason why we are not getting a great new crop coming? I know Pakistan keeps throwing up people from time to time. England have just thrown up a Steven Finn, who is not really a fast bowler but a sort of McGrath kind of a bowler. Do you think it's the pitches that are a problem? Didn't you have flat pitches when you and Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis and Glenn McGrath and all the others were bowling?
AD: You look at Wasim and Waqar. Those two were the most skilful bowlers on any pitch around the world. Especially in their own backyard, they reversed the ball beautifully. They had real pace through the air. These days you've got Shaun Tait, Dale Steyn and Brett Lee who are capable of doing that, but those two were the most unbelievable. Wasim was the most skilful of all bowlers. He was outstanding whether he was reversing over or round the wicket. You just never knew what was coming.
I don't think we played as much cricket as the modern-day cricketer plays today. The schedules are ridiculous, bowlers are subject to a lot of hard wickets, very flat pitches. It's boring Test cricket to watch at the moment. The recent Test match between Sri Lanka and India in Colombo - I just cringed watching that. That doesn't make for any viewing whatsoever. The wickets were far too flat. So we will see bowlers diminishing as the years go on. Something's got to be done about the pitches.
HB: Interesting you say that because the averages that bowlers are generating are starting to move up as well. Good fast bowlers averaged 22, 23, went up to about 26, 27. They are now going into the high thirties. But there are still a couple of people who are bucking the trend. Dale Steyn would probably have been a good bowler in any generation. Jimmy Anderson, when the ball in swinging around, is all right. So there are still a few good bowlers around. Pakistan seem to have one every Test match.
AD: You have Mohammad Amir from Pakistan. Dale Steyn keeps churning it out. He is a fantastic performer right now. James Anderson as well, swinging the ball through the air. Your skill level has got to be of such a standard in the modern-day game that you've got to move the ball through the air. You've got to have the capability of moving the ball through the air with the new and the old ball on certain surfaces. Steyn keeps doing it. At the moment he's got the best strike rate of any bowler. Pitches are one thing, what really concerns me is the amount of cricket the players play these days. It's the survival of the fittest, really, in all conditions, but we'll just have to monitor the volume of cricket these guys are subjected to these days.
HB: Okay Allan, I am going to put you on the line, almost like someone is facing up to you in your prime. I am going to give you three fast bowling pairs, and you tell me who you rate as best among those. From Pakistan you have Mohammad Asif, who has come back, dropped in pace, but is bowling well with Mohammad Amir. England have got Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad, and in South Africa we have got Steyn and your boy, Morne Morkel.
AD: I'll try not to be biased. At the moment, at Test-match level, Dale Steyn is the best bowler in the world. I would give Morne Morkel just a year or so from now and I think you've got the best partnership in world cricket.
HB: Let's run through all the sides. Your favourite cricket team in the world, Australia - are they struggling with their fast bowling? You are happy with what you see with their overall bowling? There is not much of a spin bowler there; Hauritz is averaging very high.
AD: Mitchell Johnson's very good. They've got a settled attack. They've got one of the better attacks in the world at the moment.
HB: Dougie Bollinger looks all right as well?
AD: I met Doug Bollinger in 2006, during the High Performance Camp. He's become a consistent member of the Australian side. He keeps doing it on all surfaces. A very skilful bowler.
HB: On a scale of 1 to 10, Allan, how many points would you give Australia today?
AD: Around 6 or 7
HB: Let's talk about England - Anderson, Broad, Finn. In English conditions they are very good. How many points would you give them?
AD: 6 or touching 7
HB: You think they will be just as effective in other conditions, or do you think they are a very English-oriented attack?
AD: They're good in English conditions. It'll be very interesting for them to go to Australia during the Ashes and bowl on those flat pitches.
HB: With the Kookaburra ball?
AD: With the Duke ball, they're pretty good. Anderson is the bowler, for me, who really stands out in that regard. Broad is pretty much a line bowler, though he's quite aggressive. But in Australian conditions, with that ball, they're going to need something off the deck as well. So they're going to be tested during the Ashes.
HB: Pakisan, how many points out of 10? As they stand now, because you don't know if three months later they will be the same bowling side.
AD: Five
HB: Okay, that's Pakistan. Though you have already said that you rate Amir high. Now the two teams you've seen a lot of sitting in a television studio - Sri Lanka and India?
AD: Those two sides are battling at the moment. Malinga for me is outstanding, on any surface. India have big problems, especially with regards to how they're going to take 20 wickets. You look at Harbhajan Singh, he's actually leading that attack at the moment, which is worrying.
HB: How many points for Sri Lanka and India?
AD: These are the sides that will struggle bowling people out. 4.
HB: Not bad. I think India would not mind having same points as Sri Lanka. Last one for you: South Africa now have a couple of spin bowlers - in Johan Botha and Roelof Van der Merwe, and Paul Harris is still around. Steyn and Morkel look good. Maybe you still need a replacement for Makhaya Ntini. But I am going to leave that as a last ranking for you.
AD: I don't really see South Africa bowling people out with their spinners. They never have and I don't think they ever will, unless Johan Botha starts playing in the Test side. I don't think Harris is an outstanding bowler. He does a good holding job. But South Africa's seamers Morkel and Steyn, with no more Ntini - I would say they are the same as Australia. 6 or 7.
HB: Okay, Allan Donald wonderful talking to you, and getting your views on fast bowling. Maybe somebody will listen to you and realise that good wickets are not only good for fast bowlers but good for cricket as well.
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